[Kurlansky was called to impeach the testimony of prosecution eyewitness Lola Andrews.]
Harry Kurlansky, Sworn.
(By Mr. Jeremiah McAnarney)
Q.What is your full name?
A. Harry Kurlansky.
Q.Are you in business in Quincy?
A. Yes, sir.
Q.Where is your place of business?
A. 1466 Hancock street, Quincy.
Q.How long have you been in business in Quincy?
A. Oh, since 1909 or 10.
Q.Do you know Mrs. Lola Andrews?
A. Yes, sir.
Q.How long have you known her?
A. I have known Mrs. Lola Andrews for the last seven or eight years.
Q.Sometime in February of this year did you have a talk with her?
A. Yes. I was right on my door step and Lola Andrews went by.
Q.What time, do you remember now what time of the day it was?
A. It was just between six or seven; I should judge it was about half past six.
Q.You say she went by or was going by?
A. She was going by.
Q.Did you have a conversation with her?
A. Yes, sir.
Q.Tell us what was said by either of you?
A. Yes.
Q.What you said and what she said?
A. She walked by my store and as I know her---
THE COURT. When did the conversation take place?
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY. What?
THE COURT. Has he told when this conversation took place?
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY. A. conversation in February this year, if your Honor please.
Q.Now, tell us what was said.
A. As I sat on my door step and as I know her I always spoke to her when she went by. I said to her, "Hello, Lola," and she stopped and she answered me. While she answered me I ,said, "You look kind of tired." She says, "Yes." She says, "They bothering the life out of me." I says, "What?" She says, "I just come from jail." I says, "What have you done in jail?" She says, "'the Government took me down and want me to recognize those men," she says, "and I don't know a thing about them. I have never seen them and I can't recognize them." She says, "Unfortunately I have been down there to get a job and I have seen many men that I don't know and I have never paid any attention to any one."
Q.Did she come in your store during that conversation?
A. She did. No, I said, "Hello" to her, and she answered me. She walked right into my store.
Q.When did you first call that conversation to any one's attention and to me?
A. The net who takes care of my shop that was in my store. My shop is right straight along. It runs 40 feet wide, 40 feet long, and it goes straight through.
Q.I don't ask you for your calling their attention to it, but other than the men in your employ?
A. Yes.
Q.Who did you first call that conversation to, who did you first tell that conversation to?
A. To the man who was listening, and he asked me about it.
Q.I don't ask you about the men in your shop. I mean some one else.
A. Some one else?
Q.Who did you first, outside of your own shop, tell this story to?
A. Oh, we talked after that to a good many people about an awful thing to want anybody---
Q.I don't ask you what you said. Did you come to me and tell me a story?
A. Yes, I did. After the day that I picked up the paper just about two weeks ago Monday, I picked up,---I never was interested in the case at all. When I picked up the Quincy Daily, Quincy Daily Ledger, and I seen it in great big headlines Mrs. Lola Andrews had identified---
Q.You read that article. You read that article in the Quincy Saturday Ledger?
A. Yes.
Q.When did you see me?
A. I seen you Monday morning. I walked right up to your office.
Q.You came to my office?
A. Yes.
Q.Told me about that, what you saw in the Ledger?
A. Yes.
Q.And you then told me what she had told you?
A. What she told me.
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY. That is all.
Cross-Examination
Q.(By Mr. Katzmann) Did you, Mr. Kurlansky, hear about the assault on Mrs. Andrews?
A. Any assault?
Q.Yes.
A. I don't know anything about that.
Q.I asked you if you heard about the assault on Mrs. Andrews?
A. In the paper, I seen it in the Quincy Daily Ledger.
Q.And when was it you saw it in the paper with respect to the tale you have been telling us about?
A. I read the papers on---
Q.If you can---
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY. Let him answer.
Q.The question was, when with respect to the day that you say you had this conversation with Mrs. Andrews was it that you heard about the assault or read of the assault?
A. The assault that I read in the paper was before that I spoke to, I went up to Mr. McAnarney's office.
Q.Yes. It was before you went to his office?
A. Yes.
Q.That wasn't the question.
A. Then I don't understand the question.
Q.Apparently not. You talked with Mrs. Andrews, you say, in February?
A. Yes.
Q.When was it you read in the paper about an assault upon Mrs. Andrews?
A. I couldn't exactly remember the date.
Q.Was it before or after that day?
A. I couldn't say, because I don't remember exactly the date when. I only remember the reading of it about the assault in the Quincy Daily Ledger.
Q.When was it in February you say you talked with Mrs. Andrews?
A. In February.
Q.When in February?
A. I could not remember the dates, the dates don't bother me. I got a lot of other business to attend to than thinking about the dates.
Q.Was it the middle?
A. I could not tell you whether the middle or the last. I have a lot of things to think of beside that.
THE COURT. Mr. Kurlansky, kindly pay attention to the questions and answer those and nothing else. You will get along better.
THE WITNESS. I could not remember the date.
Q.Are you sure it was in February?
A. Well, I am quite sure it was in that month.
Q.Are you sure of the time of the day when the interview took place?
A. No.
Q.Was it in the morning?
A. No. At night.
Q.How late at night?
A. It was just between six or seven. I judge it was about half-past six.
Q.Are you sure it was not before six?
A. Absolutely sure.
Q.How are you sure of that?
A. Well, because my man, the one you that takes care of my shop inside, always stays after the help goes home
and marks up the work for them for the next morning to start on. They quit at six. There was nobody around except the man who takes care of the shop.
Q.That is true of every night in the week, isn't it?
A. No, not every night in the week, with the exception of when I have got a lot of work.
Q.Then there are some nights he goes home before six?
A. Very few.
Q.Does he go home some nights before six?
A. Yes, he does.
Q.How do you know it wasn't one of those nights?
A. Why, that is easy to remember because he was right there.
Q.He was right there?
A. Yes. He wasn't there in the store. He was in the shop.
Q.You remember that?
A. Absolutely.
Q.You don't remember the day of the week, do you?
A. No, I don't remember the day of the week.
Q.You don't remember the time of the month?
A. No.
Q.Did you make any note of this conversation?
A. Absolutely not.
Q."Did you make any note of this conversation?"
A. Absolutely not.
Q.None whatever?
A. No, no note.
Q.What you are giving is a matter of recollection?
A. What I have given you is a matter of what she told me.
Q.Matter of your recollection of what she told you?
A. But I don't understand exactly what recollection means.
Q.Was she alone?
A. She was alone. Yes, she wore a dark blue cape.
Q.Did you gather from what she said she had just then come from Dedham?
A. Yes.
Q.Did you see any automobile from which she alighted?
A. No automobile.
Q.Where is your store with relation to the Alhambra building?
A. My store from the Alhambra building I should judge would be about as far,-well, I couldn't measure the distance exactly but it is quite a piece away from it.
Q.What street is it on?
A. The Alhambra building is on Hancock street. My building is, too, but the Alhambra building is in the square. My place is next to the Quincy Trust Company.
Q.Is that beyond the square where the City Hall is?
A. The City Hall is further up.
Q.Is the Alhambra building in between the City Hall and where your store is?
A. The Alhambra Theatre.
Q.No. Can't you answer that question?
A. I am willing to answer it.
Q.Answer it directly, please. Get it. Just wait. Is the Alhambra building in between the City Hall and your store?
A. Yes.
Q.Yes. From which direction was she coming?
A. She was coming from the Alhambra building and towards my store and my sidewalk.
Q.Did she have anything in her hand?
A. No.
Q.Was she dressed with outdoor clothes?
A. She was dressed with blue cape with braid around.
Q.Is that an outdoor garment or indoor garment?
A. That is an outdoor garment, I would call it.
Q.What?
A. It is an outdoor garment, I would call it.
Q.Outdoor garment?
A. Yes.
Q.How long did you talk with her?
A. Well, talked just the time about 10 minutes or perhaps less. I haven't had anything to time that absolutely.
Q.About 10 minutes?
A. I should judge it was about 10 minutes.
Q.Have you told us all she said?
A. Well, that is about all.
Q.Took her 10 minutes to say that?
A. We talked the awful thing it is to say anything like that when you don't know.
Q.Anything else?
A. Not anything that I could remember; nothing else was said.
Q.She told you she was saying anything she did not know?
A. She told me that, yes.
Q.Had she told you she had said anything she did not know?
A. No. She told me can't say anything she don't know, she says.
Q.Did she tell you that any officer, any police officer urged upon her to say anything she did not know?
A. She did not mention any police officer or no,---anybody. She simply say the "Government."
Q.The government?
A. Yes.
Q.Did she say with whom she had been to Dedham?
A. No, sir, she did not mention any names.
Q.Did she say anybody had been with her to Dedham?
A. She only told me just the way I said.
Q.Did she say anybody had been with her to Dedham?
A. I did not ask her exactly if anybody---
Q.Did she say?
A. She told me just she was to Dedham, that she comes from Dedham.
Q.Did she say how she went to Dedham?
A. No.
Q.Did she say whether she went with anybody to Dedham or not?
A. No.
Q.She told you she could not recognize-any man whom she had seen at South Braintree?
A. She told me that.
Q.And that she had not seen the face of any man who was at South Braintree?
A. She had not seen, she says, and she don't know, she says, very many. "Unfortunately," she said, "I had to be there that day for a job."
Q.Did she say she did not see the f ace of any man at South Braintree?
A. No. I did not ask her that.
Q.I mean with respect to any automobile outside of the factory. m
A. Did not mention no automobile at all. We did not have no automobile conversation at all.
Q.Automobile was not mentioned in the conversation?
A. No, no.
Q.Did she tell you what day she went to Braintree to look for work?
A. She told me what day she went? No.
Q.What day?
A. She told me, "I happened to be unfortunately at that day in South Braintree." i
Q.What day?
A. The day when the murder had occurred.
Q.She spoke of that, did she?
A. Yes. She told me about it.
Q.Did she say where she had been at South Braintree that day?
A. She told me she has been looking for a job.
Q.Did she say where she looked for the job?
A. She did not mention no name.
Q.And you remembered that conversation immediately?
A. Why, of course I did.
Q.When you saw an account of her testimony in the paper?
A. Why, of course, that reminded me.
Q.That reminded you?
A. Yes.
Q.You hadn't any interest in this case?
A. I haven't any, absolutely none at all.
Q.Then you went up to Mr. McAnarney's office?
A. I did. Voluntarily.
Q.Voluntarily. Did you talk with Mrs. Andrews after she testified here?
A. I talked with her a week ago yesterday. I was right in my machine. I bowed to her. She walked by and I bowed my head and so she stopped for a minute.
Q.Did she tell you anything that had occurred in this court room while she was testifying?
A. She said they had her all,---they had her all so she was fainted.
Q.Nothing else?
A. Exactly nothing else, yes.
Q.Did she say---
THE COURT. He said "yes," I thought he said, the last. Did you say “yes," the last answer? What was that last answer?”
(The answer is read.)
Q.Did she say to you what had caused her to faint in the court room?
A. She did
Q.What did she say it was that caused her?
A. She said the cross-examination and the way back in the life they went.
Q.Anything else?
A. That is about all.
Q.Are you sure that is all? Are you sure that is all
A. Yes.
Q.What is your answer?
A. Yes. That is all.
Q.Did you hear her say when you talked to her about a week ago that what caused he r to faint was seeing the face in the audience of the man who had assaulted her at Quincy?
A. Never mentioned a thing to me.
Q.Are you sure of that?
A. Absolutely sure.
Q.She said it was the cross examination that did it?
A. Yes
MR. KATZMANN. That is all.
THE COURT. Mr. Witness, I would like to ask one question. Did you attempt to find out who this person was who represented the Government who was trying to get her to take and state that which was false?
THE WITNESS. Did I what?
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY. What is that question?
THE COURT. Did you try to find out who it was who represented the Government?
THE WITNESS. No.
THE COURT. Why not?
THE WITNESS. Well, it didn't come into my mind. I wasn't sure, you know. It didn't---
THE COURT. Did you think the public interest was served by anybody representing the Government to try to get a woman---
THE WITNESS. I don't think of anything---
THE COURT. ---to identify somebody?
THE WITNESS. I don't think of anything at all.
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY. Keep your voice up.
THE WITNESS. I don't think of anything like that just simply what she tell you.
THE COURT. Don't you think it would be a good idea to find out, if you could?
THE WITNESS. I think it would be.
THE COURT. I am trying to find out why you didn't do it.