Lewis Pelser, Sworn-
Q. [By Mr. Williams.] What is your full name?
A. Lewis Pelser.
Q. Where do you live?
A. 287 Centre Street, Jamaica Plain.
Q. And what is your occupation?
A. Shoecutter.
Q. Where do you work?
A. Rice & Hutchins shoe factory.
Q. South Braintree? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long have you worked there?
A. Oh, I have worked there about two years now.
Q. Were you working there on April 15th of last year, the day ofthe shooting?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And in what department were you working?
A. In "K" department.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. In "K" department?
Q. What kind of work do you do in "K" department?
A. Shoecutters.
Q. The factory you were working in was Rice & Hutchins' factory down Pearl Street away from the railroad track?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That is just below the crossing south of the South Braintree railroad station, is it not?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What floor were you working on?
A. I would call it the first floor. There is a basement underneath it.
Q. First floor above the basement?
A. Yes, sir, first floor above the basement.
Q. And what did you first know that day with reference to the shooting, either by hearing something or seeing something?
A. Well, I heard something first, and then I opened the window afterwards.
Q. Which window did you open?
A. I opened the middle window.
Q. That is the middle window in the end of Rice & Hutchins' factory?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What had you heard before you opened that window?
A. I heard about three shots before I opened the window.
Q. Did you look out of the window?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what did you see when you looked out?
A. I seen this fellow shoot this fellow. It was the last shot. He put four bullets into him.
Q. You saw this fellow shoot this fellow. Who was the man that was shot?
A. Berardelli.
Q. Did you know him by sight or to speak to before that?
A. No, sir.
Q. You have learned since his name was Berardelli?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where was he, the man who was shot, with reference to your window as you looked out?
A. Right in the front window where the stuff is.
Q. You were in that window space?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you were looking down towards Pearl Street?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you see there?
A. I saw him lying down.
Q. Who?
A. Berardelli, after the shooting.
Q. How was he lying, do you remember?
A. He was lying on his left side, and then he rolled over on his back.
Q. What other man or men did you see near him in the street?
A. No one else, only the fellow that done the shooting.
Q. That is what I am referring to. Where was he?
A. He was about three feet away when he put the last shot in Berardelli.
Q. How many shots did you see him fire at Berardelli?
A. One.
Q. Now, there is a rail fence along there, isn't there?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And then there is a sidewalk?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And a gutter of some kind?
A. A gutter of some kind.
Q. And the street?
A. And the street.
Q. You say Berardelli was lying-
A. Lying.
Q. Where was he lying with reference to the sidewalk and with reference to the street and with reference to the fence?
A. Well, he was right in the middle of the sidewalk where the stump is.
Q. Which way was he headed? Where was his head and where were his feet?.
A. His head was up towards the railroad station.
Q. Assume for the minute this is the fence, Ric & Hutchins is where these gentlemen are, this rubber mat is the sidewalk, and the oak floor here is the street, and there is the crossing up there.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, how was he lying? Will you step down a minute? Suppose this is Berardelli's body, and this is his head. Will you lay that pointer the way he was laying? [The witness steps down from the stand and illustrates.]
Q. For the purpose of the record, he was lying on the sidewalk?
A. On the sidewalk.
Q. With his head in a somewhat slanting position? Towards the crossing?
A. Towards the crossing.
Q. How far was his head from what we call the gutter?
A. Two feet away.
Q. Now, if you will step back, please.
[The witness takes the stand.]
Q. [Continued.] How was the man who you saw shot-I mean, who did the shooting, standing when you saw him? How was he standing?
A. He was standing about three feet away when I saw the last shot.
Q. Did he have anything in his hand?
A. Yes, sir; he had a gun.
Q. What kind of a gun?
A. I couldn't tell what kind of a gun.
Q. Could you describe what it looked like?
A. It was a bright gun, brand new gun it looked like.
Q. What color?
A. Whitish color.
Q. What?
A. Whitish color.
Q. How did he hold it in his hand?
A. He held it just like that, in his right hand.
Q. Will you describe that man that you saw there who was doing the shooting?
A. Well, he was about two or three feet away, and he stood like that, and put the last bullet in him.
Q. How did he look? Describe his appearance if you will.
A. Describe the fellow?
Q. Yes, describe his appearance.
A. He was kind of crouched down.
Q. I don't mean the way he was standing, but the way he looked?
A. You mean his description?
Q. Yes, that is just what I do mean.
A. He had a dark green pair of pants and an army shirt tucked up. He had wavy-hair pushed back, very strong hair, wiry hair, very dark.
Q. What complexion?
A. Dark complexion.
Q. How far were you from him at that time?
A. Oh, about seven feet away.
Q. Do you think of anything else about his appearance that you can tell the jury?
A. No, sir.
Q. You say an army shirt tucked in?
A. Tucked around the neck.
Q. What do you mean by an army shirt?
A. One of those brown army shirts they have in the army.
Q. You say, tucked in around the neck?
A. He had the collar pushed up, and I think he had a pin in it.
Q. You think he had a pin in it?
A. Yes.
Q. I wish you would look around the courtroom.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you see in the courtroom the man you saw shooting Berardelli that day?
A. Well, I wouldn't say it was him, but he is a dead image of him.
Q. Who is the man you are referring to?
A. The fellow on the right here.
Q. Where?
A. Right here.
Q. Who are you pointing to?
A. The fellow on the right.
Q. Where?
A. Towards the right here, with the white collar, soft collar and tie.
Q. Well, there are a good many men in this room-
A. Right in the cage on the right-hand side. Not the fellow with the mustache.
Q. Do you know what his name is?
A. Well, I have heard it was Sacco.
Q. Have you seen him since that time until you saw him in the courtroom?
A. No, sir.
Q. Have you seen a picture of him since then?
A. No, Sir.
Q. Have you seen a picture of him today before you came to the stand?
A. Well, the picture you showed me.
Q. You say you wouldn't say it is him, but he is the dead image of him. What do you mean by that?
A. Well, he has got the same appearance.
Q. Have you got any question in your own mind but what he is the man?
MR. McANARNEY. I object. I ask that be stricken out.
THE COURT. The answer, if he has answered, may be stricken out. What is the question?
MR. WILLIAMS. "Have you any question in your own mind but he is the man?"
THE COURT. There are various degrees of certainty as to identification. As I understand our decisions, a witness can be asked with what degree of certainty with reference to his identification and, on that account, you may ask the question.
MR. McANARNEY. Your Honor will save my rights?
THE COURT. Certainly.
MR. MOORE. And with reference to the defendant Sacco?
THE COURT. Certainly.
MR. WILLIAMS. His Honor has ruled that you may answer that question.
THE WITNESS. What question?
MR. WILLIAMS. Read the question, Mr. Stenographer.[The question is read.]
A. I wouldn't say he is the man, but he is the dead image of the man I seen.
Q. Now, what did you see that man on the street do after he shot, as you say, the fourth shot? You said it was the fourth shot?
A. Yes.
Q. Then what did you see him do? A. He ran towards the automobile. The automobile was coming up slowly.
Q. Where was the automobile when you first saw it?
A. It was a few feet away from Berardelli.
Q. What did you see happen when the automobile came?
A. He started to fire. He put a bullet.over towards where Parmenter fell.
Q. Who did?
A. The fellow that was doing the shooting.
Q. That same fellow?
A. Yes.
Q. What did Parmenter do?
A. He fell there in the lot where the restaurant is now.
Q. Did you see him fall?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. After he put a bullet over there, what did you see him do?
A. Then he flashed a gun over towards the factory.
Q. What factory?
A. Rice & Hutchins. Then he jumped into the automobile, and put two bullets right over The window where I was standing.
Q. Then what did he do?
A. He went away.
Q. See anybody else there?
A. No, sir.
Q. See anybody on the street except Parmenter, Berardelli and this man?
A. No, sir.
Q. What did you see of Parmenter before he fell, if anything? I mean, as to his action?
A. He just fell over a pile of rocks.
Q. What was Parmenter doing when you got to the window?
A. Well, I just about saw him fall.
Q. Now, what could you see of the car after these men got aboard?
A. What did I see of the car?
Q. What did you see it do, I mean?
A. I took the number of the car.
Q. Where was the ear when you took the number?
A. It was no more than about five or six feet.
Q. What was the number on the car?
A. 49783.
Q. 49783?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you make a note of it at the time?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Are you sure of that number?
A. Yes, sir....
Cross-Examination.
Q. [By Mr. Moore.] Mr. Pelser, you have no interest in the outcomeof this case at all, have you?
A. Any interest?
Q. Other than to see to it that due and proper justice is administered between the parties?
A. I don't know what you mean.
Q. I say, you have no interest in this case other than to see to it that exact justice is administered in this court-
A. Yes, sir.
Q. -by this jury?
A. Yes, Sir.
Q. I understand you to say you were on the second floor, middle window?
A. Yes, sir. I was standing at the time...
Q. Now, those windows in that building on that floor are opaque, are they not, that is, you can't see through the window?
A. Yes, sir. You can't see through the window.
Q. So that the windows have to be opened to see anything, is that correct?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. At the time this affair started, what was the condition of that window or those windows where you were?
A. Well, there was a little window open about that much.
Q. About three to four inches?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, you are on the lower half of that window, aren't you?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. There is a ledge sill, on that window that sticks out, is there not?
A. It sticks up, yes, sir.
Q. And your statement to the jury is that you saw out through there and saw bodies lying in the street?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, do you say that those bodies or body-
A. Body.
Q. -was lying right near the sidewalk, or where the sidewalk would be if there was a sidewalk there?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Inside of what would be the gutter line, or outside the street line?
A. Well, he was lying right in the middle of the sidewalk.
Q. Right in the middle of the sidewalk?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And that was the body of Mr. Berardelli?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, did you see any shooting at that time?
A. When I opened the window I seen him shooting.
Q. How long did you stay in the window?
A. Oh, about, I would say about a minute.
Q. Do you claim that it was during- Then, what did you do after the lapse of this minute?
A. I opened the window wide open.
Q. The minute that you looked out and saw the body that you have referred to did you then open the window?
A. Opened the window, yes, sir.
Q. And you opened the window clear up?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you stood looking out?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. For a minute?
A. What do you mean?
Q. For a minute, I say?
A. Yes, for a minute.
Q. Then what did you do?
A. I seen everything happen about that time, about in a minute.
Q. And was it during that space that you got the automobile number?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Then what did you do? After the lapse of your minute, what did you do then?
A. Well, I took the number of the car.
Q. Well, I know, but then what did you do? After you had seen all that you say you did see, including the taking the number of the car, during this interval of a minute, then what did you do?
A. There was quite a bunch around, and they wanted to know what the number was, and they ran up and telephoned.
Q. Had the automobile disappeared during that interval?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. In other words, you stood in the window from the time that you first saw through the crack?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Immediately opened the window, and stood in the window all the time?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Until the car disappeared over the road?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Mr. Pelser, on March 26 of this year did a gentleman call on you, Mr. Reid, and talk with you with reference to the facts of this case?
A. To my house?
Q. Yes.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you talked with him at that time, and he told you who he was,-he introduced himself?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Told you his name was Mr. Reid, and he had a Miss Bemish with him, is that correct?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And he told you who he was and what he was there for?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you talked with him freely and frankly and fully, did you not?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And told him on that day, March 26th, you told him freely and frankly everything that you knew about this case?
A. Not everything, no, sir.
Q. You didn't?
A. No, sir.
Q. Why didn't you?
A. Well, I didn't feel like telling him the whole story.
Q. You didn't talk freely and frankly?
A. Yes, sir. I told him some, but I didn't tell him the whole story.
Q. In other words, part of the things you told him were true?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Other things you told him were not true, is that what you mean to tell the jury?
A. No, I told him parts of the story, and that is all.
Q. Well, everything you told him was true, was it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Everything that you told Mr. Reid at that time was a true statement of fact?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, I understand you stated, in response to counsel's questions, that when you looked out of the window, raising the window up- You raised it clear to the top sash, did you?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you stood square in the window?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Standing square in the window, you saw a man shooting?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Saw the gun in his hand?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Saw one bullet fired?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Two?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Three?
A. I wouldn't say three.
Q. Looked at the man?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. [Reading.] Question: "Did you see any of the shooting?" Answer: "Why, no. I just seen him laying there, that is all." Did you so state to Mr. Reid?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was that a true statement of the fact?
A. Well, yes, it was.
Q. What?
A. It was.
Q. It was? This is a correct statement of what you told Mr. Reid?
A. That I told Mr. Reid, yes, sir.
Q. Now, is it a true statement of what you saw?
A. No, sir.
Q. Why was it that you didn't tell Mr. Reid, the facts?
A. Because I didn't want to tell my story.
Q. Why?
A. Because I didn't like to go to court.
Q. What has happened between now and then that you should tell to one side in this lawsuit one set of facts, and tell the other gentlemen in this lawsuit another set of facts? What has happened?
A. Well, I didn't know him well enough.
Q. You knew them on March 26th just as well as you know them today, did you not?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Why, then, didn't you tell them what the facts were?
A. I didn't think I had to tell my story.
Q. Did you tell Mr. Reid a falsehood in order to avoid being called as a witness in this case?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. In other words, you think so lightly of your word that, in order. to avoid being called as a witness, you deliberately told a falsehood representing it to be the truth?
A. Yes, air.
Q. [Reading.] Question: "The shooting was all over by the time you opened the window?" Answer: "Yes." Did you so state to Mr. Reid?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was that the truth?
A. No, it was not.
Q. Again, you are willing to tell an untruth, and your only explanation is that you wanted to avoid being called as a witness?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. [Reading.] Question: "Did you see the man who did the shooting?" Answer: "No; they were just gone." Did you so state to Mr. Reid?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Why did you tell Mr. Reed that, Mr. Pelser?
A. Because I didn't know him well enough. I didn't know who he was.
Q. He told you that he represented the defendant?
A. Yes.
Q. He talked with you with entire frankness?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You didn't refuse to talk with him?
A. No, sir.
Q. You told him what you thought about all the facts, didn't you?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. [Reading:] Question: "They had just gone?" Answer: "Yes." [Reading:] Question: "Did you see any around there?" Answer: "Well, I'll tell you, they were shooting while I was at the window, and I got under the bench, and that is all I seen of them." Did you so state to Mr. Reid?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Didn't you duck under the bench?
A. No, sir.
Q. Why did you tell Mr. Reid that you ducked under the bench? Now, Pelser, isn't it the truth that you did duck under the bench?
A. No, sir.
Q. Didn't you tell counsel for the Commonwealth in direct examination that you got scared?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Then you ducked under the bench, didn't you, sir?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Why didn't you tell the jury half a second ago that you did duck
under the bench?
A. Well, I didn't.
Q. Didn't you just now tell me that you did?
A. No, sir. That is what I told Mr. Reed.
Q. Did you tell Mr. Williams that you did get seared?
A. I was scared.
Q. You were scared?
A. Yes....