Lewis L. Wade, Sworn.
Q. (By Mr. Williams.) What is your full name?
A. Lewis L. Wade.
Q. Where do you live, Mr. Wade?
A. 195 Hollis Avenue, Braintree.
Q. You lived there for some time?
A. About four years.
Q. What is your occupation?
A. Shoemaker.
Q. Employed by whom?
A. Slater & Morrill.
Q. How long have you been employed by Slater & Morrill?
A. Well, about 15 years,-16.
Q. You then were employed by them April 15th of last year?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And in what capacity were you employed on that day?
A. I worked in the sole leather room.
Q. You worked where?
A. In the sole leather room.
Q. In the sole room?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And in what factory? A. Slater & Morrill's, Number 1.
Q. When you say "Number l," you mean the one down the hill?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you recall a shooting at South Braintree on that date, April 15th?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And where were you immediately before the shooting?
A. Before the shooting happened?
Q. Yes; just before it, where were you?
A. I was in the cement house.
Q. That is down in front of that factory. I am showing you Exhibit No. 9. Can you point out on that picture where the cement house is where you were at that time?
A. Right there (indicating).
MR. WILLIAMS: The witness points out the cement house right there in front of Slater & Morrill's factory.
Q. What were you doing there?
A. Well, at that time I was filling up Mr. Slater's car with gasoline.
Q. What time of the day was it?
A. Well, about seven minutes of three.
Q. Anybody there with you?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who?
A. His chauffeur.
Q. Slater's chauffeur?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was his name?
A. Hans. I don't know his last name.
Q. Did you fill up the car?
A. I put in about eight gallons.
Q. Where did the car go then?
A. It went down the hill, then up the road, and up Pearl Street.
Q. Over the crossing?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know the chauffeur's name?
A. I don't know his last name. I can't remember. It is a funny name.
Q. After Slater's car went up the hill and over the crossing, what did you next see or hear?
A. Well, after the car had left the cement house, I hung the hose up, uncoupled it from the pump and then locked the pump. We have a little barrel to hang it up on so it won't get all mixed up, and I hung it up, and came out of the cement house. I was just snapping the lock on it.
Q. On the door of the house?
A. Yes, sir. As I was snapping the lock on, I heard a shot-it sounded like a shot.
Q. From which direction?
A. On the right.
Q. On your right?
A. Yes, sir. That would be west.
Q. What did you do then?
A. Then I turned, and I saw-I heard a lot of noise up there first. There was some Italians working across the road and they made a lot of noise, and I thought they were fighting first, but as I looked I could see Berardelli on the sidewalk.
Q. Tell us from that point, as accurately as you can, just what you saw, where any of the actors in the matter were located, what you heard and what you saw, and do it slowly and carefully, if you will, Mr. Witness.
A. As I turned there and looked up the road, I saw Parmenter run, and as he ran across the road he ran like that (illustrating), and there was a dirt truck-The horses were out over the gutter and the truck was on the sidewalk-and as he ran by it, I couldn't see him no more. I looked at Berardelli, and he was in a crouching position. That means his left arm was up here, and he was down like that. And this man was standing, well, not at the most over five feet, anyway, from him, and he was in a crouching position. He was over like that, jumping back and forth, and I saw him shoot. Then I saw him shoot again.
Q. In what direction?
A. Towards the man on the sidewalk, Berardelli. That would be, shooting south. Berardelli stood in an angle of north-east, and the man that was shooting him was facing south. And the next thing that I saw was a, car came up Pearl Street, and stop-Well, it didn't exactly stop. I wouldn't say for sure whether it stopped or not. And there was a man at the wheel. As I looked at the man, he was a palefaced man, a man, I should judge-I am not very good at ages, but I should think he was about probably 30 or 35. He looked to me like a man that had sickness or he was sick. There was another shot fired, and he put her in full speed and went up the hill, and this man that was shooting Berardelli went,out on the side of the road and picked up the money box, I call it, and lifted it up with two hands and put it into the car, and he got into the car, and I don't know whether he shot-I would not say for sure whether he shot again or not, but I think so, and I should take it that he shot at the man on the road. Then I turned into the office to call emergency, and after I called them I ran out. I went to where Berardelli lay, and he was not dead then. He was breathing, and when he breathed the blood would come up and down on his face. We thought he was shot in the mouth at that time.
Q. Where was he lying at that time?
A. He was lying on the sidewalk in the middle of Rice & Hutchins, on the north side. That would be the end-There used to be a tree and there is a stump there now, and between that stump and the post with the fire alarm box on it he dropped, and when he dropped he dropped on to his left side and rolled over onto his back, and he was exactly between that stump and the telegraph pole with the fire alarm box on it, only he was on thb sidewalk.
Q. Do you know there is a fence along that side there, a rail fence?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How near or how far was he from the end of that fence?
A. From the end of the fence?
Q. Yes. Well, the end of the fence is just where the telegraph pole with the fire alarm box on it.
Q. That is the telegraph pole you mean, at the end of the fence?
A. Yes, Sir.
Q. How far west, that is, how far up towards the crossing, was he from that telegraph pole that you say is at the end of the fence?
A. I should say nine or ten feet.
Q. And what angle did Berardelli's body make with the fence?
A. It was parallel with the fence.
Q. Which way was his head?
A. It was west.
Q. That is, towards the crossing?
A. Yes, Sir.
Q. Where was this man you say was jumping in front of Berardelli and shooting? Was he on the sidewalk, in the street, or in the gutter?
A. The gutter was between the two of them.
Q. Will you describe that man you saw shooting at Berardelli?
A. Why, he was kind of a short man, had black hair, he was bareheaded, he had black hair, and I would say that he weighed probably 140 pounds. He may have weighed more, and he may weigh less. I think he was probably 26 or 27. He had a gray shirt on. His hair was blowed back. The wind was blowing pretty hard that day, and his hair was blowed back. And he needed a shave, and his hair was cut what you call a "feather edge" in back.
Q. What do you mean by that?
A. I don't know,-they call it that. It is similar to this gentleman's here, only up higher.
Q. Have you seen that man you saw shooting at Berardelli that day since then?
A. Have I seen him?
Q. Yes.
A. I thought I saw him.
Q. Where did you think you saw him?
A. At the Brockton police station.
Q. How long after the shooting?
A. Well, I think it must have been a month.
Q. Do you see him in the court room now?
MR. McANARNEY: Just a minute. I object.
THE COURT: What is your objection? I will hear your objection.
MR. McANARNEY: The question is leading, indicating to the witness, clearly,-"Do you see him in the court room now?"
THE COURT: Do you say you have seen him since? If you have, where?
A. I thought I saw him at the Brockton police station.
THE COURT: Any other time?
A. No, not that I know of.
MR. WILLIAMS: Does your Honor rule that question is admissible?
THE COURT: I think you should go a little further. He says he has not seen him since.
Q. Well, where did you see him in the Brockton police station?
A. It was upstairs. I don't know what the room is used for.
MR. McANARNEY: The witness didn't say he did see him, He thought he saw him in the Brockton police station.
THE COURT: Is that your judgment, that you saw him in the Brockton police station?
A. I thought I saw him.
THE COURT: Is it a thought, or guess, or is it your judgment, your recollection of the man from what you saw on the day of the shooting?
A. Well, I did at that time.
THE COURT: And that was your judgment?
A. Yes, sir.
THE COURT: You may answer.
MR. McANARNEY: What was the question? (The question is read.)
A. Well, it was up-I don't know-one flight, I think. There was a large room there, and there was a little room off that room, at the north end of that room, and I saw him in there.
Q. Now, will you look around this court room? Will you look around this courtroom?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And will you tell the jury if the man you saw in the Brockton police.station, which you say in your judgment was the man who did the shooting that day, is in the court room?
A. I would not say for sure.
Q. What is your best judgment?
A. Well, he resembles,-looks somewhat.
Q. And which is the man you say "he resembles,-looks somewhat"?
A. The man sitting there.
Q. Which man?
A. The man on my left in that cage.
Q. Where?
A. Right there.
THE COURT: There are two on your left.
THE WITNESS: I mean the one on this-side.
Q. Point him out the one you mean. Which man do you mean?
A. The man with the black hair.
Q. There are fifty men with black hair.
A. That man in the cage.
Q. That man in the cage,--which one?
A. With the black hair.
Q. On which side?
A. Coming in, he would be on the left.
Q. As you are looking now, which man in the cage do you say?
A. The man with the black hair on this end of the cage.
Q. Do you know what his name is?
A. Why, yes.
Q. What?
A. I can't remember his first name.
Q. What is his last name?
A. Sacco.
Q. Is he, in your best judgment, the man you saw shooting at Berardelli that day?
MR. McANARNEY: I object.
THE COURT: I thought it was the question I framed and the answer, "What was his judgment?"
MR. WILLIAMS: You were asking about the man in the Brockton police station; I am asking about the man he now points out in the courtroom.
THE COURT: You may ask about his best judgment today.
MR. McANARNFY: Your Honor will save my exception?
THE COURT: I want to ask the question, and see whether it is the one I put, or -not.
(The question is read.)
MR. McANARNEY: That question I object to.
MR. MOORE: Will you save my exception?
THE COURT: Wouldn't it be better if you waited with your exception until the Court ruled? You may ask him what is his best judgment as to whether the man whom he has called Sacco is the man whom he saw on the day of the alleged shooting. I will save an exception, if you desire, to that question.
MP.. MOORE: Yes, sir.
(The question suggested by the Court is read.)
Q. Will you answer the question?
A. May I have it read over again?
Q. Yes, sir.
(The question is again read.)
A. Well, I ain't sure now. I have a little doubt.
Q. What is your best judgment is the question, Mr. Wade.
THE COURT: Pay attention, Mr. Witness, to the question.
THE WITNESS: My best judgment-I don't understand.
THE COURT: What is your best recollection, if you have any; what is your best judgment?
A. Well, my best judgment is this: If I have a doubt, I don't think he is the man.
Q. What? I am asking you what your best judgment is.
MR. McANARNEY: I want that answer.
THE COURT: Mr. Witness, I want you should pay attention to his questions, and answer the questions.
MR. McANARNEY: May I have the last answer read? I didn't get it.
(The question and answer are read.)
THE COURT: I Will let it stand.
Q. What do you mean by that, Mr. Witness?
MR. McANARNEY: Just a minute.
THE COURT: I think I will allow it. There is a comparatively recent case in which the Supreme Court has said on the question of identity the Court should allow the broadest latitude.
MR. McANARNEY: I will withdraw the last objection, if your Honor please.
THE COURT: You may inquire. (The question is read.)
A. What do I mean by the statement I made?
Q. Yes.
A. Well, the reason why I had a doubt, I have seen a man that resembled him, the man that I saw that day, and that is the reason why I have a little doubt.
Q. When did you first have any doubt in regard to Sacco?
A. About three or four weeks ago.
Q. Had you had any doubt before then?
A. No.
Q. Do you recall talking with me in the early part of this trial?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you tell me then that Sacco was the man that you saw shooting at Berardelli?
MR. McANARNEY: Wait. I object.
THE WITNESS: When was that-
THE COURT: Wait one minute. You don't bring yourself within the statute. You must first call his attention to the particular occasion.
Q. Do you recall the first occasion that I talked with you in regard to this case in this court house?
A. Recently?
Q. The first time I ever talked with you about this case in this Court house?
THE COURT: When was that?
MR. WILLIAMS: I am asking if he recalls, if your Honor please.
THE WITNESS: I remember last week you talked with me.
Q. That is the first time you talked with me in the court house, wasn't it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And were you in the small room by the District Attorney's room?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And did I ask you at that time if the defendant Sacco was the man you had seen shooting at Berardelli?
A. I don't remember that.
MR. McANARNEY: I object.
Q. You don't remember that?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you remember whether you told me that he was the man?
MR. MOORE: I object.
THE COURT: You may answer.
MR. MOORE: Exception.
THE COURT: (To the Jury.) Gentlemen, I should explain to you the purpose of this inquiry. This is not in any way evidence of the fact. Under the statute, although the prosecution calls a witness, if a witness has made contradictory statements outside, inquiries may be made with reference to those statements, solely with one view, and that is, to attack the credibility of the witness. It is not affirmative evidence of anything; it simply attacks the credibility of a witness, and as far as it can go against the defendant, given its fullest extent, would be to absolutely discredit the testimony of the witness.
Q. Did I ask you at that time if, in your judgment, Sacco was the man you saw shooting at Berardelli?
A. I don't remember that.
Q. Well, did I?
A. No, sir.
Q. You say no. Did I ask you any questions about Sacco?
A. No, sir.
Q. What?
A. Not that I remember.
Q. Do you now tell me and tell the jury I did not ask you those questions in that ante-room by the District Attorney's room? A. I don't remember, Mr. Williams, that you asked me that.
Q. Did I have any talk with you?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And I said nothing and put no questions to you regarding Sacco?
A. You talked about the case to me.
Q. You remember that, do you?
A. Yes, sir,
Q. You say you changed your judgment about four weeks ago?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Up to that time had you had any question in your mind?
A. Well, before that time?
Q. Yes.
A. Well, I thought I was a little mite mistaken.
Q. You thought you were a -little mite mistaken?
A. Yes.
Q. When did you first think you were a little mite mistaken?
A. Well, when I went down to the Quincy court.
Q. Down to the Quincy court. Was Mr. Katzman present in the Brockton Police Court when you appeared there?
A. Brockton police station, yes, sir.
Q. Did he ask you at that time if Sacco was the man who did the shooting?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you tell him?
A. I told him yes.
Q. Did you have any doubt in your mind at that time?
A. Well, no, not then, I don't think I did.
Q. And how long after the shooting was that?
A. Well, it was pretty near a month, probably, lacking a week.
Q. The sixth day of May, wasn't it?
A. I think so, if I remember right.
Q. Have you ever told anybody else he was the man?
MR. McANARNEY: That I object to.
THE COURT: That is not coming within the statute.
Q. Mr. Wade, I am going to ask you a question I have put to you before. What day was it that you and I had a talk in the little room beside the District Attorney's room last week?
A. What day was it?
Q. Yes.
A. I think it was Thursday.
Q. That, of course, was within these four weeks period of your changing your judgment, wasn't it?
A. It was after I changed my judgment, yes, sir.
Q. And I asked you questions regarding your knowledge of this shooting, didn't I?
A. Yes.
Q. And I asked you questions regarding the identification of the man who shot Berardelli, didn't I?
A. I don't remember you asking me that question.
Q. Are you honest when you say that?
A. Yes, sir, I am, Mr. Williams.
Q. You don't remember me asking you questions of identification?
A. No, sir, I don't, to tell you the honest truth.
Q. Will you now say I did not ask you if the defendant Sacco was not the man who shot Berardelli?
A. I don't remember you asked that question.
Q. Will you say I did not ask you?
A. No, I won't.
Q. I did ask you, didn't I?
A. I don't remember whether you did or not, to tell you the truth.
Q. I asked you more than once, didn't I?
A. I don't remember that, Mr. Williams.
Q. You don't remember?
A. No, sir.
Q. And you want to let it go that way, that you don't remember me asking you that?
A. I don't remember you asking me that question.
Q. Do you remember answering any question of similar import?
A. The only thing I remember-
Q. No, no. Do you remember me asking you that, and your answering it?
A. No, sir, I do not.
Q. All right, sir. Now we will go back to the scene of the shooting. Did you see an automobile there other than Slater's car? A .Yes, sir.
Q. Where did you see it?
A. Down below the shop.
Q. Where abouts down below the shop?
A. Well, down between the third and second telegraph pole down Pearl Street.
Q. When did you first see it down there?
A. When I came out of the cement house.
Q. How far away from you was it at that time?
A. Well, I am not very good at distances, but I should say it was probably 250 feet, or 200 feet.
Q. Do you know where Scabia's house is?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Which house is that on the picture?
A. There (indicates.)
Q. That is the house down below Slater & Morrill's?
A. Right there (indicating).
Q. Where was the machine in relation to Scabia's house?
A. It was probably 150 feet.
Q. What was it doing when you first saw it?
A. It was headed up this way, on the side of the road, the south side of Pearl Street.
Q. Which side of Scabia's house was it on?
A. On the east side.
Q. That is, away from the crossing?
A. Yes.
Q. When did you first observe any men in that car, if you did observe any men?
A. I didn't observe any man in the car, but there was a man outside of the car when I saw that car down there.
Q. Did you see that car come up the street at any time?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. When?
A. After the shooting, or just before it stopped.
Q. Where were you at that time?
A. When the car came up the street?
Q. Yes.
A. I was looking up Pearl Street at the shooting.
Q. Did the car pass you?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Will you describe the car in detail?
A. Well, the car it was black, and it was very dirty in back, and it had an oblong window about that long that had round corners, and it had no glass in it. I don't know the make of the car, because I am not very good at that.
Q. What size of a car was it?
A. I should judge it was five-passenger.
Q. Have any curtains on it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where?
A. On the back end, on the side towards me.
Q. How many curtains did it have?
A. One.
Q. How far forward did that curtain come?
A. Well, I have one similar on my car that comes about to the end of the door, the back end of the'door, the hinge part. You know, the door opens and where the hinge is it was there. I don't know whether they call it a quarter curtain. It covers up the back and just a little.
Q. Was the top up?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did that car do after it went by you?
A. It stopped up where the shooting was.
Q. Then what happened?
A. There was -a man that was shooting Berardelli, and he walked right there about two steps and picks up a box about that long, about that wide, that tall, with a handle in the center, but he took it up with two hands and lifted it into the auto, and I saw that he put it in the center of the automobile, and he gets into the car. At that time I went into the office.
Q. Did you see anything else at that time?
A. Before that, I told you, I saw Parmenter run.
THE COURT: We will stop here until two o'clock.
(Noon recess.)
Afternoon Session
Mr. Lewis L. Wade, Direct Examination resumed by Mr. Williams.
Q. (By Mr. Williams.) Now, what else did you see when you saw Parmenter run?
A. After Parmenter had run, he went by a dirt truck and that obscured my view, and then I see the shooter.
Q. You have spoken about one of the men shooting at Berardelli?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you see as to the other man, if anything?
A. Well, do you want me to give a description of it?
Q. That is what I am asking you.
A. Yes, sir. Well, he was a short man, I should say 5 foot, a little over, a man probably weighing about 140 or 45 pounds. He had straight hair and he had a felt hat on as he run across the road. Of course, when he went by the dirt truck I could not see him any more.
Q. Did you see that man you just described do any shooting?
A. No, sir.
Q. How many shots did you see the man in front of Berardelli fire?
A. Two or three. I think it was two.
Q. How many shots did you hear fired before you looked up to see what was going on?
A. Two.
Q. How many shots in all did you hear fired?
A. About five.
Q. Did you take any notice of the rear window of the car?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see anything through it or sticking out of it?
A. No, sir.
Q. Have you now told me what you remember and all of what you remember regarding the description of the man that you saw in front of Berardelli shooting at him?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you notice anything about his hair other than what you have now told us?
A. Yes, sir, I did.
Q. What did you notice about his hair?
A. That he was similar to you, kind of bald on here (indicating)
Q. On what side of his face?
A. The left.
Q. The left side of his face?
A. The side toward me.
Q. Is that the left side of his face?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What do you mean, kind of bald the way I am?
A. Yes, right up through there (indicating).
Q. Did you notice anything else about him?
A. Only he needed a shave, and he was, well, you would not call him a light complexioned man, kind of dark.
Q. Have you now told me everything you remember about him?
A. Except his hair in back. His hair was thin up through here (indicating), and tapered down here (indicating), and thin up through here.
Q. Did you tell Mr. Katzman on May 6th, or whatever day you were there in the Brockton police station, that you could swear the Defendant Sacco was the man that you saw shooting Beraildelli that day?
MR. MOORE. I object.
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY. I object.
THE COURT. You may answer. I have already explained the legal effect of it even though he may have said that. That is not evidence against Sacco. It is simply evidence that contradicts this witness, attacks his credibility, nothing else.
MR. MOORE. Will you please reserve an exception, your Honor?
THE WITNESS. Yes, I did say it.
Q. Did you tell him at that time there was no doubt about it?
A. He told me that-
Q. Pardon me. Answer my question, if you will.
A. That there was no doubt?
Q. Yes.
A. I do not remember saying that.
Q. Did he ask you, "Have you any doubt about it?" and your answer
A. Yes, he did.
Q. And your answer was "No"'?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. When you saw Berardelli and when you saw the man in front of him with a gun, did you see Berardelli make any movement or motion?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Will you say to the jury what movement or motion you saw him make?
A. His right hand was here (indicating) and it was going like that (to his pocket).
Q. In the way you are now indicating?
A. Yes, like that.
Q. When was that?
A. That is before he went onto the ground, before he dropped.
Q. How was he dressed, do you recall?
A. No, I do not. He had dark clothes on; a black felt hat.
Q. That is, for the purposes of the record, you describe it his right hand was in back of him?
A. Yes, like that, not way behind, but it was right here like that (indicating).
Q. Over what portion of his body?
A. About his hip, I should say, right here (indicating).
Q. Which hip?
A. The right.
Cross-examination.
Q. (By Mr. Jeremiah McAnarney.) At that time he was partially down, was he?
A. Yes.
Q. Berardelli had on a long overcoat?
A. I did not notice.
Q. Perhaps you did not hear the evidence. Now, I wish you would take, taking these photographs, pick out the one that to you seems the most natural, by the way.
A. The natural of the crime, where the murder was committed?
Q. Drop that from your mind for a minute. You were some 70 paces, I believe you testified in the preliminary examination, away from where the shooting took place, weren't you?
A. Yes.
Q. That is what you testified, that is a fact, isn't it?
A. I think I said 72 paces, didn't I,-72 or 3.
Q. Very well. So the nearest point you were to the point where the shooting took place was 72 or 3 paces?
A. Yes, steps.
Q. Steps. Now, you were down below the shooting, down and you were looking up toward the crossing at the shooting?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You heard, you think, two shots and then you turned and looked?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. At that time, how near were Parmenter and Berardelli to each other?
A. When I first looked up?
Q. Yes.
A. They were, probably, I should no say over 12 or 15 foot.
Q. Following the two reports, what did you see either of the two men, Berardelli or Parmenter, do?
A. After the two reports?
Q. Yes.
A. After the two reports I looked, and I saw Berardelli in that position (indicating).
Q. Then when you first saw Berardelli he was in a more or less of a stooping position?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And near to where you have indicated, to wit, within pretty near to the gutter formed by the edge of the sidewalk and the edge of the street?
A. Yes.
Q. Who else was on the highway then beside Berardelli and Parmenter,-how many men, I mean? A. You mean up to that particular spot or on that road?
Q. At about the immediate vicinity of the shooting where Parmenter and Berardelli were, how many beside those two men were there?
A. Two men.
Q. Two men. What takes place next? Berardelli in the stooping position,-what takes place immediately next?
A. This man was out in the road facing him.
Q. Facing them?
A. Facing Berardelli, and he was, well, when I looked at Berardelli in that crouching position, and I looked up by him and I saw Parmenter running.
Q. Parmenter was farther,-was beyohd?
A. Yes, beyond, about 15 feet, I should say.
Q. And he ran in a direction, as has been testified, to the right, at right angles with the position of where Berardelli was?
A. At right angles?
Q. Yes, he ran across the street?
A. He ran across the street, yes.
Q. In a northerly direction, taking the compass as it is there?
A. Yes.
Q. Right across the street. He went behind, you said, a two-horse truck?
A. Yes.
Q. You mean it wasn't a truck in the sense of an automobile?
A. It was a two-horse dirt truck, dump in the center.
Q. You lost view of him then?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Had the man who was in front of Berardelli changed his position from the time you saw him standing, as you testified about 5 feet or something from Berardelli, did he change his position?
A. He was changing it all the time there as I was looking at him.
Q. In what way, please?
A. He was jumping back and forth, I should say, in a space probably 4 feet; he was jumping back and forth.
Q. Now, what did he finally do; after he did something different than that what did he do?
A. He was stooping over, like that (indicating).
Q. After he got through with that motion and doing as you have thus described, what did he do next?
A. He took about two or three steps and picked up a box and put it in the automobile.
Q. And put it in the automobile; and following the putting in of the box the other man went with him?
A. Well, there was probably a matter of, well, may have been a minute or may not have been as long as that before the auto started. The auto did not start as soon as he got in.
Q. The box was put in and finally did they get the automobile going?
A. Because I do not think the other fellow had got into the automobile at that time.
Q. While you say the man in front of Berardelli was moving around there, what was the other man doing?
A. I could not see him. He was across the road.
Q. You could not see the other man?
A. No.
Q. Very well. Did you see the other man get into the auto?
A. No.
Q. Did the other man get into the auto?
A. I could not swear to that, because I did not see him.
Q. Were you not observing it all the time?
A. I was observing the auto, yes, but the horses when they were out there on the road, they obstructed my view of that side of the car. In fact, I was not looking at that side of the auto. I was looking at the men that had got into the auto, and after that I ran into the office.
Q. They got in on the left or right hand side of the auto with the
box? A. The car facing west, he got into the left side of the car, the man
I saw.
Q. Then, I take it from what you say, Mr. Wade, the horses came
out into the street quite a bit? A. Well, no, the horses, the right hand legs were out in the gutter of the road.
Q. Were out in the gutter of the road, and they were facing across the street? A. Yes, and the forward wheels was on the sidewalk.
Q. Now, the impression you got of the car that came up there was a 5-passenger car, was it, Mr. Wade?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. It was quite dirty?
A. In the back.
Q. You would say the front was clean?
A. I did not notice the front. I noticed the back, after it passed by me.
Q. The back of the car seemed pretty well covered with dirt and dust?
A. Yes.
Q. You said something about these men were how old?
A. I should take the man I saw, 26 or 7 at that time.
Q. Since giving your testimony in Brockton and also since you,you did not testify in Brockton, but since talking in Brockton and testifying in the lower court in Quincy, have you looked approximately at a distance of 220 or 30 feet?
A. No, I have not.
Q. You have not made any experiment?
A. No.
Q. How old do you say these men were?
A. Well, the man I saw shooting Berardelli, at the time I think he was about 26 or 7, something like that.
Q. And you were 230 feet away from him?
A. I do not know how far I was. I measured by walking down the hill 72 steps or 73.
Q. 72 of your steps?
A. Yes.
Q. You stride along a good natural step, don't you?
A. Well, I naturally would take a longer step going down hill, I suppose.
Q. Now, do you recall the next day in Slater & Morrill's factory telling three of the fellows there that you chatted with that the fellows that did the job were 19 or 20 years of age, you thought?
A. I do not remember that.
Q. Do you remember talking to Reynolds?
A. Charlie Reynolds?
Q. Yes, and an Italian fellow and two others, four of them there talking?
A. I talked with so man I could not be particular to say who I talked with.
Q. Will you now say you did not tell four fellows there the next day that the fellows that did the job were about 19 years of age?
A. I could not say because I could not remember so far, so long ago.
Q. You said something about four weeks ago in direct examination to Mr. Williams. What was that you were saying? You said something happened about four weeks ago?
A. Oh, about seeing this man in the barber shop.
Q. Seeing what man, please?
A. I do not know who he was. He resembled the man I saw shoot Berardelli.
Q. Where did you see him?
A. In the barber shop of Pearl Street.
Q. Pearl Street, So. Braintree?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You say that was about when?
A. It was,-it ain't over four weeks. It may not be more than three.
Q. Whose barber shop was that?
A. We call him "Nick." I do not know his last name, but we call him "Nick." It is the only barber shop on that street.
Q. Is he an Italian or otherwise?
A. Italian.
Q. What was the man doing in the barbershop?
A. It was a Saturday afternoon. It was about quarter past 1 or 1 o'clock, and I went in to get a hair cut, and there was about six ahead of me, and this man came in. There was a chair right side of the stove and he sat down on it, probably about four or five feet from me. As he came in he took his hat off and his coat and he sat down in the chair and I looked at him and I wondered where I had see him before, but I could not place him, and when I went home at night I spoke to my wife about it, and the more I looked at that man at that time, he had the same resemblance as the man I saw shoot Berardelli.
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY. I think that is all. Oh, one question or two I overlooked.
THE COURT. You may ask.
Q. You testified in the Quincy District Court on the 26th of May, 1920, didn't you?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you were examined by the Assistant District Attorney, Mr. Adams, of Quincy. You remember being examined by him?
A. Yes.
Q. And by another attorney for Mr. Sacco?
A. Mr. Graham, I think.
Q. Mr. Graham. Do you recall this question:
MR. KATZMAN. What page?
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNFY. On page 33, at the top of the page, the third question from the top of the page.
Q. You were not able at that time at the Brockton police station to positively identify his man? A. I had a little doubt."
Q. You so testified at Quincy, didn't you?
A. If I remember,-it is so long ago, I may have said that.
Q. If you said it then,-and, Mr. Katzman, I am reading from the official transcript-if you said it the it was true, wasn't it?
A. If I said it, it must have been.
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY. Take page 31, Mr. Katzman, the fourth question from the top.
"Q. Do you say this is the man or can you say positively whether he is or not? A. I do not want to make a mistake. This is too damn serious, but he looks like the man." Does that call your attention to the question and your answer?
A. Yes, I remember that.
Q. Now, did you later down have this question put to you:
"Q. Will you say he is the man?" and you answered, "No, I will not say so"? You so answered at Quincy last May, a year ago, didn't you?
A. I do not know, it is so long ago.
Q. What is that?
A. I say it is so long ago, of course it has been
a year and two or three months.
Q. Have you got anything in your mind, Mr. Wade, about the man you saw up there 72 or 3 paces up that street other than that he is a dark complexioned, medium sized man?
A. No.
THE COURT. May I ask, Mr. MeAnarney, if in the hearing in the lower court it was more than one defendant was involved there?
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY. If your Honor please, no.
THE COURT. Only Sacco?
MR. TEREMIAH McANARNEY. Sacco.
THE COURT. (To the Jury.) Then from no angle, gentlemen, is this competent against Vanzetti and so you will give it absolutely no consideration whatsoever, so far as he is concerned from any angle whatever, and I have to repeat what I said that there may be no misunderstanding, it is not affirmative evidence against Sacco; it only attacks the eredibility of this witness.